Allen Bradley Standardization

Hi,

This is a very common semantic trap. We learn new concepts in terms of ones we already know.

A simple example is learning a foreign language.

School or textbook learning leaves you always formulating sentences in your head in your primary language, then translating, word for word into the target. It is well known that going to a foreign country, connecting ideas and concepts with new words (when i feel thirsty - cervesa) is the best way of learning.

If you approach new software by finding out how it can achieve your objectives, you will have more success.

I build machines, using the customers' choice of control systems, the machines can be the same and function in the same way but the AB solution is very different from the Siemens.

Let's celebrate diversity, all of these solutions are just tools for us to fulfil OUR objectives. Don't get caught up in the MY team, YOUR team commercial mentality of the big manufacturers, they actually work for us.

Marc

Hi,

Wow! where to start?, Let me give you an English perspective. In the UK AB sells exclusively through ONE distributor. AB set the prices and although discounts are available, it is still _much_ cheaper to buy from abroad. As for value for money, I priced a simple PLC controlled machine (50 IO) with one 15cm monochrome touch screen, two inverters, (bus controlled) with a PROFIBUS slave interface (I didn't add in the required software) - now this is a machine I make regularly, the mechanism and switchgear remains constant, the customer specifies the PLC and inverters) so I have spreadsheets with the last prices I paid. Taking the AB solution as the Standard (100) The Siemens Solution came in at 49.6 and the Telemecanique at 72. Just my experience, I sell plenty of each system. The cost is always borne by the customer and they never complain, so I assume that everyone is happy. I'm happy too, because I fulfil my objectives using the tools the customer wants - pure zen.

Marc Sinclair

I agree, Curt. I like RSL (though I tend to use it in keyboard mode rather than set for max gooeyness), but AD hardware is pretty good, cheaper, and in certain applications, they had a better fit as far as I/O count per module and physical rack dimensions. So I just learned to use RSL with AD hardware.

Boy this one sure has had lots of response. I have been working with PLC programming for over 20 years now. If I have a critical application AB is definitely my choice. For everything else I use Automation Direct. I can write more program code with direct soft than RSlogix. The reliability of both systems has been great. It is just that with more critical and complicated application the cost justification of AB is there. And also if very complicated AB is the only thing that will do.

Now one that I have to work with but think is one of the worst bang for the buck is Siemens. I have many Siemens units that I maintain and they just aren't that reliable. Their pricing is higher than AB and for the same dollar can't deliver anywhere near the quality and reliability.

Well, That's all I have to say about that

CHP

I am amazed at your comment about Siemens pricing versus AB. Unless you are paying list price for the Siemens stuff, I don't see how that can be.

I have found a Siemens solution and an AB solution to typically come out in favor of Siemens from the hardware side of things.

And for smaller projects, an S7-200 system will run rings around a Micrologix and costs less to boot.

There is a huge learning curve in using the S7-300/400 software. It just is not especially user friendly nor is it at all intuitive like RSlogix products are.

Anyone noticed a process running called RSOBSERV.exe? It is big brother Rockwell watching you.

I had a feeling. Do they literally see your screen or do they just log what you do?

Well it is certainly clear to see which items are the most controversial. AB makes good products and it is nice to read about the loyal following that they have, they have made great in-roads in industrial communication. However, when they need to resort to the type of pressure tactics explained here, that should conjure up some quesions in everyone's mind. If they are so good why must they resort to those tactics?

Our products http://www.equustek.com compliment and compete, to some degree, with AB and it is because of things like the fact that they do not any longer include DH485 in their new processors that allow us this niche. Also we do DF1-DH+ which they don't. As was indicated in a previous posting, our pricing is less than half ABs and we have been around for 12 years and guarantee the reliability of all of our devices. The list of our customers include most of the "Fortune 500" companies and beyond. Many of the names included in these replies are customers as well. Our only distributor was DataLink Technologies Group (http://www.protocolconverter.com), however since last year we have added GridConnect, CPU Automation, BWI, Controlmatics and Industrial Solutions Inc. Our DL line of products has withstood the test of time and should not be overlooked should you take offence to the previously noted sales & marketing strategies/pressures. I would venture a guess that what ocurred in this situation is the exception not the rule, at least I would hope so.

R. Huth
Equustek Solutions Inc.
[email protected]

Stop right there. Every business feels global pricing pressure. Don't cave to this greedy vendor. Pump out some product with no A-B at all. Your customers will like the new pricing.

Rexroth, Telemecanique, Yaskowa, ABB, Omron, Siemens, to name a few, would love a slice of your pie. Make it your goal to lower your prices, and get on the phone. I think it is extortion what A-B is doing and when they come back with cheaper switches and drives I hope industry remembers what they really are.

JKB Canada

I have found similar pressure from them as well, I though maybe because we are a little shop, we were being unfairly treated. Between the pricing and the push for the other terminal block series, and not knowing when the W will cease to ship has really put me in a scramble to find a new reliable source.
I found one too.

Automation Systems Interconnect- I also looked at the others but found that they are very cost effective for me, 30% less. I know to some it is not so much to me it is a fortune.

Try Advance Controls, Inc. (ACI) DIN rail Terminal Blocks. Great Prices & Service! 800-559-9224. http://www.acicontrols.com