Schneider Modbus+ PCI Card Replacement

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Thread Starter

TU154

We have a number of Windows 2000 PCs communicating with a Schneider electrical system using their Modbus Plus PCI-85 Adapter.

This is quite an old card, and my searching shows that it requries a PCI bus (originial spec, not PCIx or e) supplying 5V. I can't find any manufacturer that still supplies a workstation providing this, or any conversion product. Does anyone know of a solution in the event of all the PCs failing, or a an alternative? We have been told that the USB-Modbus plus convertor will not work.

My thinking is that the software is written to interface with this card only, so at present it looks like we need to find hardware that we can install the card in so the software can talk directly to it. Anyone with thoughts, I would appreciate it.
 
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Michael Griffin

You can still get PCI bus motherboards, and even ISA bus motherboards. One thing to look for if you need old motherboards is to try "industrial motherboards". These are often just old designs which are still in limited production. A Google search should turn some up in whatever part of the world it is you live in.

If you want an entire spare PC, you can buy all the parts, including an "industrial" case (usually this means better filters and fans). Some industrial PC vendors will offer them already assembled. Again, which ones you should look at depends upon what part of the world you live in.

Your biggest support problem may be motherboards that have chip sets that aren't supported by MS-Windows. MS-Windows 2000 is long obsolete, and MS-Windows XP will be designated EOL (end of life) next January. A lot of people are having software compatibility problems with their present offering (MS-Windows Vista), especially drivers (which might be a problem for your PCI-85). If you are using MS-Windows 2000, you will want an older chip set, while for MS-Windows Vista, you may want to use a newer one. You will need to test everything, including the software.

If you buy a fully assembled PC, OEMs are allowed by Microsoft to ship them with MS-Windows XP for another few months. After that, they are required to ship only MS Vista. If you were planning to buy a retail copy of MS Windows XP, that product is planned to be pulled off the shelves somewhere around the same time. Microsoft will continue "activating" the copy protection system in MS-XP for some time after that, but there is obviously a limit to how long they will continue with that service.
 
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Mark Massa , PE

It sounds like you have multiple PCs with MB+ cards in them sitting on the MB+ network.

You could take a step in the right direction, by using an Cyberlogic OPC Server/Bridge.
They make a software package the allows for Modicon devices on MB+ to be programmed and communicated to via Ethernet.

It lets you take the remaining PCs w/ MB+ cards and make them gateways.
http://www.cyberlogic.com/products.htm
MBX Bridge Suite 6.0
Packaged to provide all the software needed to route messages between different Modicon networks.

Good Luck,
Mark Massa,PE
 
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Fred Loveless

Our company writes OPC Servers. We have had very good experience with our customers that are using the Cyberlogix cards. You can also use products like the Schnieder BM85 Modbus TCP to Modbus Plus bridge. The thing to rember about t his hardware bridges is that they do limite the number of simultaneous Ethernet connections. Even with there limits these bridges are a great way to extend the life of your existing hardware.

Fred Loveless, Support Manager
 
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Instead of putting Modbus Plus adapters in every PC, get a single Scheider/Modicon 174CEV20040 Modbus Plus/Ethernet Bridge. This lets you leave all of your PLCs and any data transfer between them on MB+ with no code changes. Ethernet is standard on virtually every new PC motherboard, so all you need to add is an Ethernet switch and cabling if you don't have it already. In your PC applications, change the driver from MB+ to Modbus/TCP. (I presume that you can do this.) The new driver has a routing byte that the bridge configuration uses to direct messaging to the right MB+ path.

This is the arrangement one of our clients has used for several years with multiple networks, WonderWare SCADA software and a mix of legacy 984 and newer Quantum PLCs.

Mike
 
Parker CTC still provides Industrial PC's that are still supporting ISA and PCI bus technologies.
 
I have upgraded similar hardware before. We were using Pentium 1 & 2 on WinNT4.0 environment obviously these had old boards on and werent a problem to interface Modicon hardware. But when we bought new P4s running WinXP we had to use latest drivers from Cyberlog(MBP Driver Suite) on PCI or you can still find Industrial Pcs with old boards eg Advantec Industrial PCs. I think you can still find the old SA85 or PC85 cards with Dos packages from Schneider but they`re moving to newer versions to use on new machines.
Good luck..
 
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James Ingraham

I do have experience with them. They're okay, but they've got some issues. For example, Concept talk to a PLC through it directly. This implies to me that it won't work as a straight swap. On the other hand, it might work for your specific application, depending on what the software is doing. I would think that applicom / Woodhead would be willing to loan one to you for testing.

-James Ingraham
Sage Automation, Inc.
 
Mike,

As above typical applications for the Modbus Plus network include data acquisition and monitoring, and interfacing to manufacturing applications operating on plant computer systems.

Does the Scheider/Modicon 174CEV20040 Modbus Plus/Ethernet Bridge allow remote PLC programming, program upload/download/archiving support using Proworx32? Hardware is a mix of legacy 984, Quantum and Momentum PLCs.
 
We have a lot of experience with the Applicom PCI2000MBP cards. The older versions of their firmware worked ok, with version 3.4 SP2 being the most stable for us on Win2k. After v3.4 though, we've run into numerous issues with their drivers on the same machines that ran v3.4 without issues.

Most recently, v3.8 will not funcion correctly with Win2k3 and the latest Microsoft DCOM security patch. We reverted back to v3.4/Win2k just to keep production up. Now, all of our new servers (DELL) do not come with a PCI 5v slot (only low end servers, and Dell says soon not at all). I've spoke with Applicom-Int (in France) and they will not be changing the architecture over to the newer PCI configs, not enough demand. With the right firmware version and OS, it works great, but they are not keeping up with OS changes/patches and hardware so I'd stay clear of Applicom.

TS
 
Schneider Electric produces a PCI card that meets the 3.3V and 5V specification. The part number is 416NHM30030A (Single Cable) or 416NHM30032A (Dual Cable).

I would contact your Schneider Electric representative to see if they can offer you product upgrade price if one is available.
 
As far as I've seen, it supports any application communicating over Modbus/TCP and Modbus+. It simply translates the function codes and data between the two protocols and routes addressing according to the user defined tables, so it's transparent to the application for all intents. The only problem I had was about six years ago, when I couldn't download the executive to a Momentum PLC on MB+ through the bridge. That one was still under warranty, and the replacement had the latest firmware and a faster processor. Other than that, I had no problem with SCADA, Concept programming or PLC MSTR reads & writes.

Mike
 
There is a 3.3V version of Schneider's PCI-85 card, part number:416NHM30030A.

You could also use a Schneider "Connexium" Bridge, part number:174CEV20040. This will give you Ethernet to MB+, you can program through it as well.

This new bridge is also Unity Pro compatible as well as works with Concept, Proworx, etc.
 
The original driver for the USB/MB+ adapter (part number TSXCUSBMBP) was not compatible with the MBX driver used with the PCI-85, and that is likely the problem.

However, a new driver has just been released that is compatible. Some of the devices in the distributor pipline will still have the old driver, so you should check to see if it is earlier than 6.0.0 + Update 20070615. If so, you should contact Schneider about getting a free upgrade. You can also contact Cyberlogic at [email protected].
 
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