Control.com - Nerds in Control

We have a GE MS5001 turbine installed with MARKII Speedtronic system. We want to replace this system either with TRICONEX or MARKVIe Speedtronic. Anybody want to share his experience about the system and technical issues regarding both the systems? I have also heard that newly installed MARKVI/VIe systems were also replaced by TRICONEX at a couple of places. Let me know a fair comparison between the two systems.

You might want to search control.com for Triconex, Trisen, Tricon. An interesting thread is:

http://www.control.com/thread/1026247032#1026247783

You shouldn't believe everything you hear or are told without questioning or attempting to understand all the details and circumstances.

Dear CSA,

The only issue in upgrading MARKII by TRICONEX is the need for some interfaces. If I misunderstood please correct me. We have TRICONEX installed on one of our remote plant since Feb 2007 and it is working fine till now. On the other hand there are other parameters, e.g. cost and services, which should also be taken into consideration. Kindly let me know more to make an "apples to apples" comparison.

"Some" additional interfaces is only *ONE* issue; another is software, and there are more still. Triconex, or any other control system integrator, can only attempt to approximate the algorithms and control schemes used by GE in Speedtronic turbine control systems.

Others on this site have spoken about some very intricate and elegant control schemes implemented in PLCs being used to control heavy duty gas turbines which just didn't work and were extremely difficult to understand and troubleshoot. I'm referring to Droop Speed Control and CPD-biased Exhaust Temperature Control and Combustion Monitoring specifically. The transition between Droop Speed Control and CPD-biased Exhaust Temperature Control must be "seamless" and "bumpless" in order to achieve optimal power output under all turbine and ambient operating conditions. There are very few control system integrators with the knowledge and experience to program PLCs to accomplish this without sacrificing turbine performance or introducing load swings during transitions.

With regard to the hardware interfaces you refer to, at a minimum they require additional spare parts and quite often complicate and undocumented calibration procedures. Some are even proprietary, which almost defeats the purpose of using a generic control system to control a heavy duty gas turbine, its load and auxiliaries.

Think long and hard about *all* the intricacies of turbine-, load- and auxiliary control and their implementation. Ask your potential suppliers for references, and contact them. You'll be sorry if you don't, even if it's not pleasant or easy to ask such questions about implementations, spares, and after-installation support.

It's been said many times here on control.com about many different applications of control systems: most control systems can be programmed to control just about any application. The true cost of a system is not the initial procurement and installation; it's the support you receive over the life of the system by the packager of the control system. The true cost of a system is measured over many years, not just the installation and not just the cost of the hardware and software.

An apples to apples comparison would be very subjective and very difficult. It's one of the most difficult things in the world to do for almost any device or article. If there were a perfect automobile, there wouldn't be the tens of manufacturers in the world that there are; there would likely only be the one. A purchasing decision is a series of compromises, just as a design and development effort is. The trick is to be able to evaluate all the options and choices in light of your needs or the perceived needs of others when designing a system to be able to meet the most important criteria at a price that is reasonable to the purchaser and profitable to the manufacturer/integrator.

I can tell you that one of the "detractors" of a GE Speedtronic turbine control system is that they generally require little or no troubleshooting or maintenance. That means the cost of training personnel to troubleshoot and maintain Speedtronic turbine control systems is almost never recovered. So, the good news is they run very well and last a long time when properly configured and minimally maintained (usually good housekeeping (dust control) and temperature/humidity control is about all that's required!).

Good luck! Everyone would be interested to follow along in your evaluation and selection process.