Hi

I am currently trying to decide on what control system to use to control a pumping system. I have next to no code writing experience and am doing my best to decipher which control system to use. I will be paying for someone else to do it and to teach me. The Control system must be able to show clear live and historical graphs on the HMI from which it must be able to recognise data trends and actively respond to this data trends. It must also be able to automatically generate reports.

I want the user interface to have a WOW factor. I want it to look like a new generation control system. Easiest way to explain that is I want it to look like Windows Vista, not Windows 3.1!

I am currently trying to decide between Citect, as it is the most common control system here in Western Australia, and Labview due to it’s ease of programming. However I am not convinced that Labview can give us everything we want.

Can any of you gurus please give me some independent advise.

Regards
Brett

 

I would say Citect, being that they are popular in your area.  I have not used Citect, but I have heard good things about them.  I expect that they can easily accomplish the items that you mention, trending and reporting.

Bill Sturm
Abbeytronics LLC

 

Have you checked out Mobiform Software. We have an HMI designer that comes with built-in connectivity to OPC, and can be extended to talk to any data source.

It is built on Microsofts newest technologies .NET 3.5 SP1, and can create Silverlight Projects to use over the web talking with your data source. There is a trial version on the web.

www.StatusVision.com

Patrick

 

Hi Brett,
I think Labview is a good product in context, but probably not the best for this application (I've probably welcomed some flame email from fans of labview, but....) I'm often impressed and somewhat surprised at the applications people are doing with Labview. Personally I can't stomache their drawing "language" for doing machine control, so I'm biased.

Citect can be good for visualization and non realtime control. It has a scripting language, which is good because you can use it to do a lot of things. I've used it and it is decent. You would want to make sure it talks to your equipment, obviously.

I'm not sure I personally would use either one for critical control. IF this is the case I would consider a system with a PLC, and use a physical touchscreen HMI and/or SCADA like citect to do the visualization for impressing people.

KEJR

 

Where can I find MODNET31 Driver. I have installed latest MODNET 2.06.19. If I go under Citect Communication > I/O Device > Protocol...there isn't any MODNET31 to select.

 

Thanks for suggesting Mobiform Patrick. It looks very impressive. Definitely the most aesthetic control system Ive seen. On that note can it control? The website seems to sell it just as a data visualization tool, but have no control. Do know if it can control a Festo PLC?

I will contact them and ask.

Regards
Brett

 

Hi Ken

Thanks for the advise. All of the controls are controlled by Festo pneumatic controls so we will be using Festo solenoid valves, proportional regulators and PLC to do all the critical controls with the addition of a hard wired emergency stop button. We just need another HMI/SCADA system to graph and record all the data and automatically produce reports. Citect and Labview can both talk to Festo PLCs.

Thanks for your input. Does anyone else have an experience or bias opinion to which control system they think I should use and why?

Regards
Brett

 

If you are using OPC servers you can talk to that PLC.

We display the data coming from the OPC server, as well as controlling the data. So if you need to increase the speed of a motor, or a Valve, you can do that from Status.

 

What do you mean by control?  The Festo PLC should implement the basic real time control algorithms.  The PC usually has a supervisory control role, like turning bits in the PLC on and off to start and stop processes and loading PLC data registers. Usually systems are designed so the "show goes on" even if the PC goes away for a while. The PC is the manager, and the PLC's are the employees.

Bill Sturm
Abbeytronics LLC

 

Patrick

I have sent a request to your sales department.

Excuse the ignorance but can we use the laptop PC as the OPC server as well as the HMI, and have the laptop PC directly connected to the PLC? Does Status have the drivers to talk to Festo PLCs?

Regards
Brett

 

Bill

Yes the PLC will have all the control and safety features built into it and will fall into a fail safe position if comms is lost between PC and PLC. However the PLC will not perform any function unless the PC gives it a command. So as far as I understand, which is not much, the PC still has an element of control.

Regards,
Brett

 

Yes if there is a way to connect the PLC to the laptop then Yes the OPC server installed on that machine can talk to the PLC.

I'm not to sure how the connections work as far as connecting the PLC to the laptop.

Patrick

 

Brett,

This is a good example of supervisory control.  SCADA stands for Supervisory Control and Data Acquisition.  So you are looking for a SCADA system. 

When you say "use the PC for control", it is ambiguous.  It could either mean direct control or supervisory control.  I usually assume it to mean direct control.

Sorry for such a basic lesson if you already know this stuff.

Bill Sturm
Abbeytronics LLC

 

Hello, Brett

We use and examine LabVIEW for the last two years, excellent means. It's well suited for your task. Some problems with data flow nature of the means have satisfactory solution by appropriate style of programming, or can be solved by Active-X interface in extreme cases (for example in the recent project we integrate LV with Python interpreter).

So, possibility to create modern-style user interface and control algoriths, the communication ability (TCP/IP, USB, RS, DirectShow, etc.) and free of charge exe-code make LV the best choice for the task you have. IMO.

--
Best regards,
Vladimir E. Zyubin

 

Bill

2 weeks ago I wouldnt have known what SCADA is. Ive taken a steep learning curve over the past month. Its all pretty exciting stuff.

Regards
Brett

 

I would recommend looking at our Drivers (www.Kepware.com). They will be available from National Instruments as an Option (National is a reseller), or you can purchase them directly from Kepware or our local channels in Australia.

Roy Kok
VP Sales and Marketing - Kepware

 

Hi,

You should consider that if your control regime is to be designed well, I would recommend a standard architecture.

PLC controller - high reliablility and all the control smarts are in this device. All control logic should be implemented at this level (independant of scada/windows running)

control panel - with minimal stop/start/emergency stop button functionality

HMI - CitectSCADA for more advanced setup/trending/mimics you should be able to run it without the HMI working. Try and ask for a small EOM licence if your not doing too much, small point count licences should be available (and cheaper)

From what I understand of labview, the PC is integral to the whole control regime, and if windows where to fail so would your whole control system.

a PLC/SCADA solution is appropraite for industrial control, Labview is better suited to hard realtime instrumentation and bespoke projects.

Ian Finlay
Earthed Solutions
Freelance Citect/C#/C++ Engineer
www.earthed.net.au