Profibus MCCs

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Thread Starter

Marshall Michelle

Hello,

I was referred to this forum by a colleague.

I work for a utility in Kansas City that is adding back end equipment. We have an Emerson DCS and Siemens MCCs. Typically, our standard is to hard wire the start/stop or the stop at a minimum. The EPC contract says the MCCs will be Profibus control. Does anyone know of any companies that have experience with a large utility relying solely on network control for MCCs. And specifically the Emerson/Siemens combination. Both the Owners Engineer and the EPC contractor state they have done backend projects like this before and see no issue with it. I called one end user that is doing this but they have only been commercial for about 3 months. I'd like to talk with someone that has been online for at least a year.

Thank you.

Michelle Marshall, P.E.
 
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Bob Peterson

We have done several that are devicenet. I wasn't involved in them. I don't recall if we did any that are profibus. Another engineer did a project that did have a bunch of profibus vfds on it.

My personal opinion is that it is a lot of extra money for not all that much (if any) benefit. I don't think any of them were any easier to start up than something hardwired. maybe even a little harder to get going due to the network baggage.

The last MCC that was Dnet was the kind where AB has built the DNet backbone into the MCC. It was substantially easier to wire than when we had to do the wiring ourself with the dnet cabling in the buckets. Now there is just a cable that runs from the device to the backbone.

Siemens brought a demo unit of their similar system out to show us a while back.

I am unconvinced it is economically a sound move, but I don't see it as being a major headache after it is up and running other than needing to train the plant electricians and instrument techs on how to maintain it.

--
Bob
 
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Patrick Beckett

Hi,

I work for a Systems Integrator in the UK. We have been supplying 'Intelligent' MCC's using either <b>Mitsubishi</b> or <b>Siemens</b> PLC's with Profibus control of Siemens Simocode ProV and MicroMaster drives.

Several large water utilities have been fittings these MCCs exclusively and I have been involved in these projects for over 10 years.

If the range of devices is tightly controlled and standards built around the capacities available, then this can be a valuable, flexible and cost effective strategy.

I recently went to factory test an MCC. From a dead untested panel I had full control of 30 drives over profibus in 90 minutes. There were 13 variants of the configuration in this panel alone. Admittedly I am very experienced at this combination of hardware and software.

Benefits: Less cabling. Standardised software. Additional diagnostic information. Additional Maintenance Information. Standardised Design. Standardised panel cubicle drawings. Reduced panel hardware and internal wiring. Reduction in I/O cards.

Issues: highly skilled software engineers required. Clients don't always know what to do with the additional information available. Extra code in the PLC required.

The biggest driver in my experience to a successful design is a strong end-client with a clear purpose and good technical knowledge partnered with a expert in the hardware and software being implemented. Put this two together in a room for a few months and you'll get a rock-solid system. Do Not Rush!

The systems I am using took a year to get really working properly, and longer to get the client to really understand it.
 
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> I recently went to factory test an MCC. From a dead untested panel I had full control of 30 drives over profibus in 90
> minutes. There were 13 variants of the configuration in this panel alone. Admittedly I am very experienced at this
> combination of hardware and software.

could you send me process to establish communication between ABB MNS iS MCC through profibus protocol.
 
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Patrick Beckett

> could you send me process to establish communication between ABB MNS iS MCC
> through profibus protocol.

The procedure is the same in every case, but the exact method is different for each master/slave combination (particularly as the master configuration software presents the information in different ways).

In general:
Obtain the GSD file for each of your slave devices from the relevant manufacturer.

Load all GSD files into your Profibus master configuration software.
Create in the profibus master a representation of your network using the GSD file information.

Get the profibus network tested for wiring faults using a BT200 or similar. Correct any problems.

Load the profibus master.

Use a profibus scanner (proficore ultra or similar) to watch the network and establish the communication state of each slave, and the waveform of the response messages. Correct any problems.

I normally recommend a step before any of these. Become a profibus certified engineer.
The course teaches you to understand how the network works and the normal mistakes made. You understand what task you are trying to achieve and hence should be able to work with any master software.

To be able to give a meaningful answer, for information would be needed. Profibus master (Siemens s7-315, Mitsubishi QJ71PB92V, etc)
Software used (Step 7 v5.5, Mitsubishi Configurator-DP v7.07)
Slave Device Profibus ID e.g. 8031

Unfortunately I am not in a position to advise on ABB masters as I don't use their software, but with the right information someone else might.
 
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