S
We have Frame 5 machine with Mark5 control system. Can anybody can tell step by step procedure regarding stoke checking for IGV, SRV & GCV using Demand display?
shyam, or SHYAM,
I would highly recommend that you NOT use the Demand Display for stroking the IGVs, SRV and GCV--particularly the SRV, because there are I/O Configuration settings for the SRV which must be changed prior to using the SRV Demand Display and then changed back after using the SRV Demand Display. And a lot of people don't do one or the other, and it leads to a LOT of problems.
It's much better to use AutoCalibrate because it takes handles a lot of the manual steps which you must do when using the Demand Display to stroke devices. It would take a small pamphlet to detail all of the steps required to use the Demand Display; and it does nothing that AutoCalibrate's Manual positioning feature doesn't do.
I would highly recommend that you NOT use the Demand Display for stroking the IGVs, SRV and GCV--particularly the SRV, because there are I/O Configuration settings for the SRV which must be changed prior to using the SRV Demand Display and then changed back after using the SRV Demand Display. And a lot of people don't do one or the other, and it leads to a LOT of problems.
It's much better to use AutoCalibrate because it takes handles a lot of the manual steps which you must do when using the Demand Display to stroke devices. It would take a small pamphlet to detail all of the steps required to use the Demand Display; and it does nothing that AutoCalibrate's Manual positioning feature doesn't do.
C
curiousone
If AutoCal is not properly configured, and the stops on the valve not properly set. AutoCal can cause more damage than help.
S
shyam
In our frame-5 machine auto calibration not configured, that's why have to use demand display. so kindly provide the procedure.
shyam,
Simply because AutoCalibrate is not configured is not a reason to use the Demand Displays for stroking devices--particularly for the SRV.
ACALIB.EXE should be in G:\EXEC directory; if it is, you have the software tool portion of the process. When this file is run (executed) either from a command prompt or from a menu selection it will start AutoCalibrate.
Somewhere on the hard drive of the <I> or HMI you should have a file called ACALIB.DAT; this is the "data" file for ACALIB.EXE. It is an ASCII text file, which means it can be edited with any ASCII text editor, or if you are using a GE Mark V HMI you can use MS-Notepad to open, view and make changes to the file. This file should be in F:\UNIT1. I recommend making a copy of this file and storing it somewhere else on the hard-drive for safe-keeping (G:\DATA is a good place; so is F:\USER, or any location you want to create for back-ups of files you deem important.
[NOTE: You can also use MS-Word or MS-Wordpad to open and view--and even make changes to ACALIB.DAT (or any ASCII text file--BUT YOU MUST REMEMBER TO SAVE THE FILE AS AN ASCII TEXT FILE WHEN EXITING MS-WORD OR MS-WORDPAD OR THEY WILL INSERT EXTRA CHARACTERS AND INFORMATION INTO THE FILE WHICH ACALIB.EXE CANNOT INTERPRET).]
If you have an <I>, you can run ACALIB.EXE from the command prompt of F:\UNIT1 by simply typing:
ACALIB
ACALIB.EXE will find ACALIB.DAT in F:\UNIT1 and use the information in ACALIB.DAT as the basis for determining the 0% and 100% stroke voltages for the Mark V.
What is important to know--and remember--about AutoCalibrate is that it is a tool for sending servo currents to electro-hydraulic servo-valves which will cause the hydraulic actuator to move the device to either the fully closed position (full-closed mechanical stop) or the fully open position (full-open mechanical stop).
AutoCalibrate needs the information in ACALIB.DAT to know what the fully closed and fully open mechanical positions are--without accurate information in ACALIB.DAT, AutoCalibrate is not going to do a very good job of calibrating LVDT feedback--and that's the second important thing to know about AutoCalibrate: it <b>ONLY</b> calibrates LVDT feedback.
AutoCalibrate doesn't do anything to the electro-hydraulic servo-valve or the SRV, or the GCV, or the IGVs. It just calibrates the LVDT feedback from the SRV or the GCV or the IGVs--it <b>ONLY</b> calibrates LVDT feedback. So, if, for example, the Frame 5 at your site has a Liquid Fuel Bypass Valve (LFBV) it will most likely NOT have LVDTs, so, AutoCalibrate can't be used to "calibrate" the LFBV--because it doesn't have LVDTs.
The Mark V has eight (8) servo-valve outputs in the standard configuration. Typically, SVO1 (Servo-valve Output #1) is assigned to the SRV; SVO2 is assigned to the GCV; and SVO5 is assigned to the IGVs. I mention this because you say AutoCalibrate is not configured for your site, which may also mean that ACALIB.DAT was not edited to say SVO1 is for the SRV, SVO2 is for the GCV, etc.
ACALIB.DAT is divided into eight sections, (well, nine, really, if you count the information in the header at the top of the file)--one for each servo-valve output. So, SVO1 would most likely be for the SRV, SVO2 for the GCV, and SVO5 for the IGVs.
As was said before, AutoCalibrate (ACALIB.EXE) needs the information about the ends of the stroke (full-closed and full-open) to be able to do it's job of calculating 0% and 100% stroke voltages properly. Luckily, in the case of the SRV and GCV, the end-points of the travel (the stroke) of the valves are 0% and 100%, and ACALIB.DAT usually has those values, or something very close to them in the file by default when shipped. HOWEVER, the default values for the IGV end-points are usually NOT correct, and to do a proper job of calibrating the IGVs it's really necessary to measure the end-points of travel and then put them into ACALIB.DAT for AutoCalibrate to do a great job of calibrating the IGV LVDTs. But, we can put some typical values in which will work just fine--since you are probably not using a machinist's protractor to measure the IGV angles anyway.
Each section of ACALIB.DAT has the same two lines:
POSITION_NEG_SAT 100
POSITION_POS_SAT -0.1
For SVO5, they might read:
POSITION_NEG_SAT 84
POSITION_POS_SAT 34
POSITION_NEG_SAT is the full-open position of the valve or IGVs <i>when it is at the full-open mechanical stop.</i> POSITION_POS_SAT is the full-close position of the valve or IGVs <i>when it is at the full-close mechanical stop.</i> (NEG and POS refer to the polarity of the servo current being applied to the servo-valve--NEGative servo current opens the device or increases the flow of fuel or air; POSitive servo current closes the device or decreases the flow of fuel or air.)
I recommend the following values for the SRV and GCV:
POSITION_NEG_SAT 100
POSITION_POS_SAT 0.1
And I recommend the following values for the IGVs (if you can't measure them or don't know them--this is ONLY for Frame 5s--not for other GE-design heavy duty gas turbines):
POSITION_NEG_SAT 86
POSITION_POS_SAT 32
Typically, the mechancial stops for a machine which operates between 34 DGA (DeGrees Angle) and 84 DGA (for the mimimum- and maximum operating angles) are set to approximately 2 degrees outside the operating angles. So, that's why 32 and 86 work for most of the machines which operate at between 34 and 84 DGA.
Once ACALIB.DAT is configured and the changes have been saved to F:\UNIT1, then you can use AutoCalibrate. You need to establish L.O. and Hydraulic pressure, and Trip Oil pressure as appropriate (that will vary from machine to machine). Note that when you start ("open") AutoCalibrate there will be some Diagnostic Alarms--<i>this is normal and to be expected.</i> This is because AutoCalibrate "tunnels" into the RAM on the TCQA card(s) in <Q>, and the designers thought anytime RAM was accessed by any program or application a Diagnostic Alarm should be generated.
There should be instructions for using AutoCalibrate in the Mark V Application Manual, GEH-6195, and possibly in the Mark V Maintenance Manual, GEH-5980. If you have problems, or questions, please write back for help.
If you use the Demand Display for stroking the SRV, you first have to re-configure the servo-valve regulator of the SRV to be a position loop, because it's normally a pressure loop, and the Demand Display can't control the position of a pressure loop.
If you use the Demand Displays to calibrate LVDT feedback, you are going to have to manually calculate the 0% and 100% stroke voltages for the IGVs (not difficult, but most people don't like doing that). AutoCalibrate will do that for you.
When you use AutoCalibrate to calibrate LVDT feedback it's critical to know that it DOES change the RAM values of the 0% and 100% stroke voltages in every processor in <Q> (that's <R>, <S> and <T> in a TMR panel; <R> in a SIMPLEX panel). But it DOES NOT change the EEPROM values--you have to manually enter the AVERAGE (for a TMR panel) of the three 0% and 100% stroke voltage values for each LVDT into the I/O Configurator for each device, and then use the EEPROM Downloader to download the values into EEPROM of <Q>. You DO NOT need to re-boot to get the values from EEPROM into RAM--as they are already there if you used AutoCalibrate. They are just stored in EEPROM now so that the next time a processor is re-booted it will get the average values from EEPROM and the LVDT calibration will be almost identical as immediately after AutoCalibrate was finished.
Another thing to remember about calibrating LVDT feedback is to verify the accuracy of the calibration <b>by comparing the actual position of the device to the feedback position displayed on the operator interface.</b> An LVDT calibration is considered to be accurate when the calibrated LVDT feedback (on the operator interface) is very nearly equal to the <b>ACTUAL, PHYSICAL POSITION</b> of the device. It's important that the calibrated LVDT feedback be nearly equal to the reference position, but it's more important that the calibrated LVDT feedback be equal to the actual physical position.
If the calibrated LVDT feedback is very nearly equal to the actual physical position but the calibrated LVDT feedback is not nearly equal to the reference position, the null bias gain value can be used to correct that--but unless the calibrated LVDT feedback/actual physical position is more than 4% or 5% different than the reference it's best not to start trying to change the null bias values. It is time-consuming and requires re-booting the processors to check the results of the changes and can be very frustrating.
And, that's the last thing I'm going to write in this response: It's always best to make sure that the null bias value in the I/O Configurator is set to 2.67% (for a TMR panel; 8% for a SIMPLEX panel) <b><i>BEFORE</i></b> staring an LVDT calibration--no matter what display/method you are using. If you find the null bias values to be other than those listed above you need to change them, save the changes and exit the I/O Configurator, download them to <Q> using the EEPROM Downloader, and then re-boot <Q> to get the proper values into RAM before beginning the LVDT calibration.
Actually, the LAST thing I'm going to say is this: A lot of time and energy is wasted "calibrating the SRV" or "calibrating the GCV" or "calibrating the IGVs." The only thing that gets calibrated is the LVDT feedback from those devices, and it's just not in the design or construction of the LVDTs or the Speedtronic panels for LVDT calibration to change (or "drift"). They rarely need calibrating, or re-calibrating. About the only time it's necessary to re-calibrate LVDT feedback is when the device (the SRV or the GCV or the IGVs) has been mechanically disassembled or the LVDT(s) has(have) been replaced. [Note: It's NOT necessary to calibrate LVDT feedback if a servo-valve is replaced because replacing a servo-valve does NOT change the stroke of the SRV or the GCV or the IGVs.]
LVTDs are just like any other device on the turbine, or on any piece of equipment. When "calibrating" pressure switches or temperature transmitters what most technicians do is check--and record--the as-found condition of the device, and then, they will adjust or "re-calibrate" the device <b>if necessary.</b> So, before calibrating the LVDT feedback from any device the accuracy of the existing calibration should be checked--and only if the calibration is found to be out of specification should the LVDT calibration be changed. The as-found condition of the calibration should be recorded, and if changes to the LVDT calibration are warranted the as-left condition should be recorded.
A good technician will also compare the 0% and 100% stroke voltages from the as-found condition (the BEFORE values) to the as-left values (the AFTER values) to see if there is a very large discrepancy--and if there is, then an investigation is warranted because, as was said before, drift is not typical for these devices. LVDTs are used on most commercial and military aircraft--and you don't see the pilots or the aircraft mechanics calibrating LVDT feedback in mid-air, or even on the ground. And when they do, they record the as-found condition, make changes--if necessary--and then record the as-left condition.
AutoCalibrate has a manual positioning (stroking) feature which is much simpler than using the Demand Displays. Using the Demand Displays really doesn't buy you any time or simplicity; they were just left over from the very early days of the Mark V--when AutoCalibrate wasn't available.
AutoCalibrate got a bad reputation because of the 34 and 84 DGA values in the ACALIB.DAT--because people didn't know the values had to be the actual physical positions of the mechanical stops of the IGVs--so IGV LVDT calibration would always be wrong if those values were used and so a very respected GE engineer started telling people AutoCalibrate wasn't accurate and that started a myth that persists to this day. He just didn't know about ACALIB.DAT--and when he found out, he wasn't working in the field any more, but his statement had already become legend--and it just won't die.
Write back with any questions--about AutoCalibrate. If you can't find a copy of ACALIB.DAT, we'll work something out. But, you should have ACALIB.EXE--it was shipped on all but the VERY FIRST Mark Vs, and if you have one of those, well, tell us about it. When was it installed and commissioned? What version of IDOS is it running? (Usually the version of IDOS can be found in the file VERSION.DAT (an ASCII text file!) in G:\DATA. If your <I> is so old it doesn't have G:\DATA or VERSION.DAT, then find the file IDOS.EXE in G:\EXEC and tell us what the file date and time are (in the VERY old days, the version of IDOS was coded into the date/time of the executable....).
Hope this helps!
By the way, the Diagnostic Alarms annunciated when AutoCalibrate is opened/running can be reset a few seconds after AutoCalibrate is closed with the Diagnostic Alarm RESET target.
Simply because AutoCalibrate is not configured is not a reason to use the Demand Displays for stroking devices--particularly for the SRV.
ACALIB.EXE should be in G:\EXEC directory; if it is, you have the software tool portion of the process. When this file is run (executed) either from a command prompt or from a menu selection it will start AutoCalibrate.
Somewhere on the hard drive of the <I> or HMI you should have a file called ACALIB.DAT; this is the "data" file for ACALIB.EXE. It is an ASCII text file, which means it can be edited with any ASCII text editor, or if you are using a GE Mark V HMI you can use MS-Notepad to open, view and make changes to the file. This file should be in F:\UNIT1. I recommend making a copy of this file and storing it somewhere else on the hard-drive for safe-keeping (G:\DATA is a good place; so is F:\USER, or any location you want to create for back-ups of files you deem important.
[NOTE: You can also use MS-Word or MS-Wordpad to open and view--and even make changes to ACALIB.DAT (or any ASCII text file--BUT YOU MUST REMEMBER TO SAVE THE FILE AS AN ASCII TEXT FILE WHEN EXITING MS-WORD OR MS-WORDPAD OR THEY WILL INSERT EXTRA CHARACTERS AND INFORMATION INTO THE FILE WHICH ACALIB.EXE CANNOT INTERPRET).]
If you have an <I>, you can run ACALIB.EXE from the command prompt of F:\UNIT1 by simply typing:
ACALIB
ACALIB.EXE will find ACALIB.DAT in F:\UNIT1 and use the information in ACALIB.DAT as the basis for determining the 0% and 100% stroke voltages for the Mark V.
What is important to know--and remember--about AutoCalibrate is that it is a tool for sending servo currents to electro-hydraulic servo-valves which will cause the hydraulic actuator to move the device to either the fully closed position (full-closed mechanical stop) or the fully open position (full-open mechanical stop).
AutoCalibrate needs the information in ACALIB.DAT to know what the fully closed and fully open mechanical positions are--without accurate information in ACALIB.DAT, AutoCalibrate is not going to do a very good job of calibrating LVDT feedback--and that's the second important thing to know about AutoCalibrate: it <b>ONLY</b> calibrates LVDT feedback.
AutoCalibrate doesn't do anything to the electro-hydraulic servo-valve or the SRV, or the GCV, or the IGVs. It just calibrates the LVDT feedback from the SRV or the GCV or the IGVs--it <b>ONLY</b> calibrates LVDT feedback. So, if, for example, the Frame 5 at your site has a Liquid Fuel Bypass Valve (LFBV) it will most likely NOT have LVDTs, so, AutoCalibrate can't be used to "calibrate" the LFBV--because it doesn't have LVDTs.
The Mark V has eight (8) servo-valve outputs in the standard configuration. Typically, SVO1 (Servo-valve Output #1) is assigned to the SRV; SVO2 is assigned to the GCV; and SVO5 is assigned to the IGVs. I mention this because you say AutoCalibrate is not configured for your site, which may also mean that ACALIB.DAT was not edited to say SVO1 is for the SRV, SVO2 is for the GCV, etc.
ACALIB.DAT is divided into eight sections, (well, nine, really, if you count the information in the header at the top of the file)--one for each servo-valve output. So, SVO1 would most likely be for the SRV, SVO2 for the GCV, and SVO5 for the IGVs.
As was said before, AutoCalibrate (ACALIB.EXE) needs the information about the ends of the stroke (full-closed and full-open) to be able to do it's job of calculating 0% and 100% stroke voltages properly. Luckily, in the case of the SRV and GCV, the end-points of the travel (the stroke) of the valves are 0% and 100%, and ACALIB.DAT usually has those values, or something very close to them in the file by default when shipped. HOWEVER, the default values for the IGV end-points are usually NOT correct, and to do a proper job of calibrating the IGVs it's really necessary to measure the end-points of travel and then put them into ACALIB.DAT for AutoCalibrate to do a great job of calibrating the IGV LVDTs. But, we can put some typical values in which will work just fine--since you are probably not using a machinist's protractor to measure the IGV angles anyway.
Each section of ACALIB.DAT has the same two lines:
POSITION_NEG_SAT 100
POSITION_POS_SAT -0.1
For SVO5, they might read:
POSITION_NEG_SAT 84
POSITION_POS_SAT 34
POSITION_NEG_SAT is the full-open position of the valve or IGVs <i>when it is at the full-open mechanical stop.</i> POSITION_POS_SAT is the full-close position of the valve or IGVs <i>when it is at the full-close mechanical stop.</i> (NEG and POS refer to the polarity of the servo current being applied to the servo-valve--NEGative servo current opens the device or increases the flow of fuel or air; POSitive servo current closes the device or decreases the flow of fuel or air.)
I recommend the following values for the SRV and GCV:
POSITION_NEG_SAT 100
POSITION_POS_SAT 0.1
And I recommend the following values for the IGVs (if you can't measure them or don't know them--this is ONLY for Frame 5s--not for other GE-design heavy duty gas turbines):
POSITION_NEG_SAT 86
POSITION_POS_SAT 32
Typically, the mechancial stops for a machine which operates between 34 DGA (DeGrees Angle) and 84 DGA (for the mimimum- and maximum operating angles) are set to approximately 2 degrees outside the operating angles. So, that's why 32 and 86 work for most of the machines which operate at between 34 and 84 DGA.
Once ACALIB.DAT is configured and the changes have been saved to F:\UNIT1, then you can use AutoCalibrate. You need to establish L.O. and Hydraulic pressure, and Trip Oil pressure as appropriate (that will vary from machine to machine). Note that when you start ("open") AutoCalibrate there will be some Diagnostic Alarms--<i>this is normal and to be expected.</i> This is because AutoCalibrate "tunnels" into the RAM on the TCQA card(s) in <Q>, and the designers thought anytime RAM was accessed by any program or application a Diagnostic Alarm should be generated.
There should be instructions for using AutoCalibrate in the Mark V Application Manual, GEH-6195, and possibly in the Mark V Maintenance Manual, GEH-5980. If you have problems, or questions, please write back for help.
If you use the Demand Display for stroking the SRV, you first have to re-configure the servo-valve regulator of the SRV to be a position loop, because it's normally a pressure loop, and the Demand Display can't control the position of a pressure loop.
If you use the Demand Displays to calibrate LVDT feedback, you are going to have to manually calculate the 0% and 100% stroke voltages for the IGVs (not difficult, but most people don't like doing that). AutoCalibrate will do that for you.
When you use AutoCalibrate to calibrate LVDT feedback it's critical to know that it DOES change the RAM values of the 0% and 100% stroke voltages in every processor in <Q> (that's <R>, <S> and <T> in a TMR panel; <R> in a SIMPLEX panel). But it DOES NOT change the EEPROM values--you have to manually enter the AVERAGE (for a TMR panel) of the three 0% and 100% stroke voltage values for each LVDT into the I/O Configurator for each device, and then use the EEPROM Downloader to download the values into EEPROM of <Q>. You DO NOT need to re-boot to get the values from EEPROM into RAM--as they are already there if you used AutoCalibrate. They are just stored in EEPROM now so that the next time a processor is re-booted it will get the average values from EEPROM and the LVDT calibration will be almost identical as immediately after AutoCalibrate was finished.
Another thing to remember about calibrating LVDT feedback is to verify the accuracy of the calibration <b>by comparing the actual position of the device to the feedback position displayed on the operator interface.</b> An LVDT calibration is considered to be accurate when the calibrated LVDT feedback (on the operator interface) is very nearly equal to the <b>ACTUAL, PHYSICAL POSITION</b> of the device. It's important that the calibrated LVDT feedback be nearly equal to the reference position, but it's more important that the calibrated LVDT feedback be equal to the actual physical position.
If the calibrated LVDT feedback is very nearly equal to the actual physical position but the calibrated LVDT feedback is not nearly equal to the reference position, the null bias gain value can be used to correct that--but unless the calibrated LVDT feedback/actual physical position is more than 4% or 5% different than the reference it's best not to start trying to change the null bias values. It is time-consuming and requires re-booting the processors to check the results of the changes and can be very frustrating.
And, that's the last thing I'm going to write in this response: It's always best to make sure that the null bias value in the I/O Configurator is set to 2.67% (for a TMR panel; 8% for a SIMPLEX panel) <b><i>BEFORE</i></b> staring an LVDT calibration--no matter what display/method you are using. If you find the null bias values to be other than those listed above you need to change them, save the changes and exit the I/O Configurator, download them to <Q> using the EEPROM Downloader, and then re-boot <Q> to get the proper values into RAM before beginning the LVDT calibration.
Actually, the LAST thing I'm going to say is this: A lot of time and energy is wasted "calibrating the SRV" or "calibrating the GCV" or "calibrating the IGVs." The only thing that gets calibrated is the LVDT feedback from those devices, and it's just not in the design or construction of the LVDTs or the Speedtronic panels for LVDT calibration to change (or "drift"). They rarely need calibrating, or re-calibrating. About the only time it's necessary to re-calibrate LVDT feedback is when the device (the SRV or the GCV or the IGVs) has been mechanically disassembled or the LVDT(s) has(have) been replaced. [Note: It's NOT necessary to calibrate LVDT feedback if a servo-valve is replaced because replacing a servo-valve does NOT change the stroke of the SRV or the GCV or the IGVs.]
LVTDs are just like any other device on the turbine, or on any piece of equipment. When "calibrating" pressure switches or temperature transmitters what most technicians do is check--and record--the as-found condition of the device, and then, they will adjust or "re-calibrate" the device <b>if necessary.</b> So, before calibrating the LVDT feedback from any device the accuracy of the existing calibration should be checked--and only if the calibration is found to be out of specification should the LVDT calibration be changed. The as-found condition of the calibration should be recorded, and if changes to the LVDT calibration are warranted the as-left condition should be recorded.
A good technician will also compare the 0% and 100% stroke voltages from the as-found condition (the BEFORE values) to the as-left values (the AFTER values) to see if there is a very large discrepancy--and if there is, then an investigation is warranted because, as was said before, drift is not typical for these devices. LVDTs are used on most commercial and military aircraft--and you don't see the pilots or the aircraft mechanics calibrating LVDT feedback in mid-air, or even on the ground. And when they do, they record the as-found condition, make changes--if necessary--and then record the as-left condition.
AutoCalibrate has a manual positioning (stroking) feature which is much simpler than using the Demand Displays. Using the Demand Displays really doesn't buy you any time or simplicity; they were just left over from the very early days of the Mark V--when AutoCalibrate wasn't available.
AutoCalibrate got a bad reputation because of the 34 and 84 DGA values in the ACALIB.DAT--because people didn't know the values had to be the actual physical positions of the mechanical stops of the IGVs--so IGV LVDT calibration would always be wrong if those values were used and so a very respected GE engineer started telling people AutoCalibrate wasn't accurate and that started a myth that persists to this day. He just didn't know about ACALIB.DAT--and when he found out, he wasn't working in the field any more, but his statement had already become legend--and it just won't die.
Write back with any questions--about AutoCalibrate. If you can't find a copy of ACALIB.DAT, we'll work something out. But, you should have ACALIB.EXE--it was shipped on all but the VERY FIRST Mark Vs, and if you have one of those, well, tell us about it. When was it installed and commissioned? What version of IDOS is it running? (Usually the version of IDOS can be found in the file VERSION.DAT (an ASCII text file!) in G:\DATA. If your <I> is so old it doesn't have G:\DATA or VERSION.DAT, then find the file IDOS.EXE in G:\EXEC and tell us what the file date and time are (in the VERY old days, the version of IDOS was coded into the date/time of the executable....).
Hope this helps!
By the way, the Diagnostic Alarms annunciated when AutoCalibrate is opened/running can be reset a few seconds after AutoCalibrate is closed with the Diagnostic Alarm RESET target.
T
TC
CSA
Have read thru your post.
I have been trying to open ACALIB.DAT in F.\UNIT1 and although the autocalibrate page does open, there is no LVDT data or pushbuttons. I have the unit at OFF and L3ADJ is 1 so permissive seem OK. Any idea why autocal won't open properly? I also note in unit1 a copy of ACALIB.DAT called ACALIB8.DAT. Could this be confusing the EXEC program?
Well that is the least of my issues. With no AUTOCAL I am using DEMAND DISPLAY. The IOCFG.DAT had GCV LVDT 1, 2 set for approx 0.7, 3.5v and I therefore set the LVDT to 0.7v at closed position. I then opened the valve fully and recorded 3.0v with my multimeter at the LVDT card input. I then updated the IOCFG.DAT with these values. When downloaded these values on the screen showed the valve at 6% and when I select the valve to go to 100% it only goes to 84% actual with a measured voltage of approx 2.65v. I then put 3.5v back as the 100% position volts in IOCFG. When I then stroke the valve it moves 100% (1.5inches) exactly but the measured voltage is still only 3.0v.
I have always used Autocalibrate so wonder if I am making some cockup with regard to manual cal. I have checked all berg jumper settings on the TCQA cards and I even put in a few new cards with the same result.
Any thoughts
TC
Have read thru your post.
I have been trying to open ACALIB.DAT in F.\UNIT1 and although the autocalibrate page does open, there is no LVDT data or pushbuttons. I have the unit at OFF and L3ADJ is 1 so permissive seem OK. Any idea why autocal won't open properly? I also note in unit1 a copy of ACALIB.DAT called ACALIB8.DAT. Could this be confusing the EXEC program?
Well that is the least of my issues. With no AUTOCAL I am using DEMAND DISPLAY. The IOCFG.DAT had GCV LVDT 1, 2 set for approx 0.7, 3.5v and I therefore set the LVDT to 0.7v at closed position. I then opened the valve fully and recorded 3.0v with my multimeter at the LVDT card input. I then updated the IOCFG.DAT with these values. When downloaded these values on the screen showed the valve at 6% and when I select the valve to go to 100% it only goes to 84% actual with a measured voltage of approx 2.65v. I then put 3.5v back as the 100% position volts in IOCFG. When I then stroke the valve it moves 100% (1.5inches) exactly but the measured voltage is still only 3.0v.
I have always used Autocalibrate so wonder if I am making some cockup with regard to manual cal. I have checked all berg jumper settings on the TCQA cards and I even put in a few new cards with the same result.
Any thoughts
TC
T
TC
CSA
Now realize that the voltage values have to be taken from the diagC rather than at card terminals. I am surprised at the difference between the voltage on the multimeter and that in DiagC. Its been a while since I worked on MK5. You get it so easy these days with MK6,6e
Still wouldn't mind knowing why Autocalibrate doesn't work properly.
thanks
TC
Now realize that the voltage values have to be taken from the diagC rather than at card terminals. I am surprised at the difference between the voltage on the multimeter and that in DiagC. Its been a while since I worked on MK5. You get it so easy these days with MK6,6e
Still wouldn't mind knowing why Autocalibrate doesn't work properly.
thanks
TC
TC,
I'm surprised there is a significant difference between the voltages at the TBQA and the voltages displayed on the DIAGC display. The only way I could explain large differences (tenths of a volt or more) would be that a non-True AC RMS voltmeter isn't being used, or the voltmeter needs calibration. I have a very expensive Fluke voltmeter that is not a True AC RMS voltmeter when the frequency of the AC being measured is above 1000 Hz (1 KHz). It's odd, but, it works fine at 50 and 60 Hz, but not at 3 KHz.
As for why AutoCalib isn't displaying images properly, I'm at a loss to explain. I have a couple of ideas--that the ACALIB.DAT file doesn't match the version of TCQA PROMs in use, or that there is some problem with communicating with the TCQA cards. AutoCalib communicates directly with the RAM on each of the three TCQA cards (I presume you're working on a TMR panel...?), and so needs to "tunnel" into the TCQA cards before it can display any information.
I might also suspect that some kind of Password Protection is in use on the <I>/HMI that's preventing AutoCalib from working properly.
Or, that some portion of the ACALIB.DAT file is corrupt.
There's just not enough information to be of much more help on this.
Please write back to let us know how you fare!
I'm surprised there is a significant difference between the voltages at the TBQA and the voltages displayed on the DIAGC display. The only way I could explain large differences (tenths of a volt or more) would be that a non-True AC RMS voltmeter isn't being used, or the voltmeter needs calibration. I have a very expensive Fluke voltmeter that is not a True AC RMS voltmeter when the frequency of the AC being measured is above 1000 Hz (1 KHz). It's odd, but, it works fine at 50 and 60 Hz, but not at 3 KHz.
As for why AutoCalib isn't displaying images properly, I'm at a loss to explain. I have a couple of ideas--that the ACALIB.DAT file doesn't match the version of TCQA PROMs in use, or that there is some problem with communicating with the TCQA cards. AutoCalib communicates directly with the RAM on each of the three TCQA cards (I presume you're working on a TMR panel...?), and so needs to "tunnel" into the TCQA cards before it can display any information.
I might also suspect that some kind of Password Protection is in use on the <I>/HMI that's preventing AutoCalib from working properly.
Or, that some portion of the ACALIB.DAT file is corrupt.
There's just not enough information to be of much more help on this.
Please write back to let us know how you fare!
T
TC
CSA
Thanks for your reply.
I think you may be correct. My Fluke multimeter hasn't been calibrated in quite some time. i've given up on Autocalibrate. I also think you are correct with your assessment on prom chips and corrupt files.
I have another issue with the R processor which is killing me from completing the calibrations. I tried to do the IGVs but noted when I turned off the Hydraulics and unforced L20TV1X that the IGVs would go fully open to the end stop, and my GCV calibration would never match command to feedback. After investigation I found that if I connected any of the servo cables on R QTBA for the SRV, GCV, FQLM or IGV the current goes immediately positive. If I disconnect these four pairs then I have slightly negative current on, for example, FSGR for S and T. I have already checked for polarity etc and even took the a servo coil of R and connected it to the input of S QTBA. and it was fine so I know it is not the field cable or servo itself. Knowing it was an issue with R processor I checked the following:
1. Swapped QTBA card from R to S
2. Swapped JGG and JFF cables from QTBA to TCQC between R and S
3. Installed a new TCQA card on R changing over the prom chips.
4. Swapped the TCQC card between R and S
5. Swapped the JE RIBBON cable from the TCQA to TCQC between R and S.
6. Checked again the berg jumpers on the TCQA and TCQC.
7. Checked the JD JDR cable going to the TCTG card for tightness,bent pins
8. Swapped the TCPS power supplies between R and S.
I think i have covered about everything on the Signal Flow Diagram D-44 GEH 6195 Applic manual.
On this drawing it looks as though some servo clamp or supply may be needed from the TCTG via the TCQA card on JE1.
I have asked the customer for a TCTG card. I've changed everything else.
Have you come across this problem and can you suggest any other areas to check.
thanks
TC
Thanks for your reply.
I think you may be correct. My Fluke multimeter hasn't been calibrated in quite some time. i've given up on Autocalibrate. I also think you are correct with your assessment on prom chips and corrupt files.
I have another issue with the R processor which is killing me from completing the calibrations. I tried to do the IGVs but noted when I turned off the Hydraulics and unforced L20TV1X that the IGVs would go fully open to the end stop, and my GCV calibration would never match command to feedback. After investigation I found that if I connected any of the servo cables on R QTBA for the SRV, GCV, FQLM or IGV the current goes immediately positive. If I disconnect these four pairs then I have slightly negative current on, for example, FSGR for S and T. I have already checked for polarity etc and even took the a servo coil of R and connected it to the input of S QTBA. and it was fine so I know it is not the field cable or servo itself. Knowing it was an issue with R processor I checked the following:
1. Swapped QTBA card from R to S
2. Swapped JGG and JFF cables from QTBA to TCQC between R and S
3. Installed a new TCQA card on R changing over the prom chips.
4. Swapped the TCQC card between R and S
5. Swapped the JE RIBBON cable from the TCQA to TCQC between R and S.
6. Checked again the berg jumpers on the TCQA and TCQC.
7. Checked the JD JDR cable going to the TCTG card for tightness,bent pins
8. Swapped the TCPS power supplies between R and S.
I think i have covered about everything on the Signal Flow Diagram D-44 GEH 6195 Applic manual.
On this drawing it looks as though some servo clamp or supply may be needed from the TCTG via the TCQA card on JE1.
I have asked the customer for a TCTG card. I've changed everything else.
Have you come across this problem and can you suggest any other areas to check.
thanks
TC
TC,
I'm really not clear on the problem(s)....
Have you verified the polarity of the current being applied to each coil by <R>,<S> &<T>, individually? Look at the IGV P&ID but if 20TV-1 is de-energized then the IGV Dump Valve should <>NOT</b> allow hydraulic oil through the servo to the IGV actuator, but should be porting hydraulic oil directly to the IGV actuato to make the IGVs close. So the current from any processors--or any individual processor--should NOT have any effect on the IGV actuator. That's why I'm so confused about the problem description. When 20TV-1 is de-energized the IGVs are supposed to close--regardless of the servo valve or the current(s) being applied to the servo valve.
Not all units are exactly alike in the sense, but this would be very unusual for the IGVs to not close when 20TV-1 is de-energized.
I'm really not clear on the problem(s)....
Have you verified the polarity of the current being applied to each coil by <R>,<S> &<T>, individually? Look at the IGV P&ID but if 20TV-1 is de-energized then the IGV Dump Valve should <>NOT</b> allow hydraulic oil through the servo to the IGV actuator, but should be porting hydraulic oil directly to the IGV actuato to make the IGVs close. So the current from any processors--or any individual processor--should NOT have any effect on the IGV actuator. That's why I'm so confused about the problem description. When 20TV-1 is de-energized the IGVs are supposed to close--regardless of the servo valve or the current(s) being applied to the servo valve.
Not all units are exactly alike in the sense, but this would be very unusual for the IGVs to not close when 20TV-1 is de-energized.
T
TC
CSA
It can be very frustrating when you look at some of these threads and the story does not end.
Here is my ending.
I went back to the P&IDs and tried to trace back the open and closed lines to the IGV actuator. As they go under the Inlet you would have to be that stretchy guy from the fantastic four to follow them. This FR6 has the actuator and LVDTs right below the compressor so nasty place to access. There are tubing expansion loops there that connect the open and closed lines to the actuator. Blind faith I decided to change the two lines and what do you know.
So a week spent suspecting a current issue with the servo driving the IGVs open pulling half the panel apart trying to find a control root cause.
This unit was refurbished and the twats have only gone and tubed the actuator wrong.
Oh well onwards and upwards!
regards and thanks
TC
It can be very frustrating when you look at some of these threads and the story does not end.
Here is my ending.
I went back to the P&IDs and tried to trace back the open and closed lines to the IGV actuator. As they go under the Inlet you would have to be that stretchy guy from the fantastic four to follow them. This FR6 has the actuator and LVDTs right below the compressor so nasty place to access. There are tubing expansion loops there that connect the open and closed lines to the actuator. Blind faith I decided to change the two lines and what do you know.
So a week spent suspecting a current issue with the servo driving the IGVs open pulling half the panel apart trying to find a control root cause.
This unit was refurbished and the twats have only gone and tubed the actuator wrong.
Oh well onwards and upwards!
regards and thanks
TC
TC,
Thanks for the feedback! As you said, what makes threads really meaningful is being able to see what worked and what didn't and how the problem was solved. That's one of the really great things about the people using control.com--that they usually write back to let us know how things turn out.
Anyway, we weren't aware that the actuator and/or tubing had been replaced, but it sure makes sense now! Twats will happen, unfortunately. And, it's almost always that the control system gets the blame for things like this, because, of course, there are just too many wires and too many blinking LEDs on the control system so it <b>MUST</b> the source of any problems. And, of course, the mechanical department never makes any mistakes because their work is so easy and it's difficult to make a mistake--not like that electronic control system!!!
Yes, older Frame 6s (and Frame 5s) have the IGV actuator in a very difficult place to access. Some inlets had a removable plate in the bottom of the inlet that could be used to get easier access to the actuator/LVDTs, but it still required a nimble person.
Anyway, glad to hear you solved the problem--and, thanks again for the feeback!
Thanks for the feedback! As you said, what makes threads really meaningful is being able to see what worked and what didn't and how the problem was solved. That's one of the really great things about the people using control.com--that they usually write back to let us know how things turn out.
Anyway, we weren't aware that the actuator and/or tubing had been replaced, but it sure makes sense now! Twats will happen, unfortunately. And, it's almost always that the control system gets the blame for things like this, because, of course, there are just too many wires and too many blinking LEDs on the control system so it <b>MUST</b> the source of any problems. And, of course, the mechanical department never makes any mistakes because their work is so easy and it's difficult to make a mistake--not like that electronic control system!!!
Yes, older Frame 6s (and Frame 5s) have the IGV actuator in a very difficult place to access. Some inlets had a removable plate in the bottom of the inlet that could be used to get easier access to the actuator/LVDTs, but it still required a nimble person.
Anyway, glad to hear you solved the problem--and, thanks again for the feeback!
