I have 3Diesel Generators of 1500 KVA each, i can parallel the 03 generators and Operate a common Generator Bus however My question is how to achieve the parallel Operation of Common Generator Bus (Out Going Circuit Breaker ( 100-EDG-0101-04) with Utility Transformer Circuit Breaker (100-ET-0101) in the attached drawing.

Will appreciate the inputs of experts. Regards,

 

@CSA Your input please, Warm Regards

 

You are showing synchronization between the diesel-gen sets.
How do you plan to coordinate voltage, frequency, power balance, and phase with the independent power source?

 

You are showing synchronization between the diesel-gen sets.
How do you plan to coordinate voltage, frequency, power balance, and phase with the independent power source?

By using controller such as DSE 8610 MK II controller

 

Frankly, my first call would be to an engineer at the utility. Whatever you plan to do, they're going to have to sign off on it so it makes sense to get them involved at the beginning of the process.

 

I have never encountered an automatic transfer switch like the one shown in the diagram, so I don't think I know how to accomplish what you want.

You seem to be suggesting using a fourth DSE 8610 MKII controller to control the synchronization of the common DG bus to the utility bus. I don't know how that would work, either. I've no experience with a DSE 8610 MKII controller.

So, I'm sorry to say there's too much I don't know about this proposed scheme, and my suspicion is it's not easily doable. It's probably doable, but at what cost? (Most things are doable, but it often comes at a high cost which often makes it difficult if not impossible to implement.)

AND, to @Dave's point, the utility is going to have to approve the scheme whatever it is (at least that's the way it works in most of the world, or used to anyway--lots of things are changing (and not all for the better)). Many utility companies require a synchronization check relay in series with an automatic synchronization relay for additional protection. There are some utility companies that do not authorize manual synchronization operations, and others that require the ability to manually synchronize the machine(s).

My suggestion is to commission an engineered power system study to review your system and its capabilities, and have a look at the utility's requirements and make some recommendations, perhaps even estimate the cost(s) involved. If the goal is to sell power when the price is high, it might make sense to make the investment--but reliability requires training and procedures for the new scheme/equipment.

 

I have never encountered an automatic transfer switch like the one shown in the diagram, so I don't think I know how to accomplish what you want.

You seem to be suggesting using a fourth DSE 8610 MKII controller to control the synchronization of the common DG bus to the utility bus. I don't know how that would work, either. I've no experience with a DSE 8610 MKII controller.

So, I'm sorry to say there's too much I don't know about this proposed scheme, and my suspicion is it's not easily doable. It's probably doable, but at what cost? (Most things are doable, but it often comes at a high cost which often makes it difficult if not impossible to implement.)

AND, to @Dave's point, the utility is going to have to approve the scheme whatever it is (at least that's the way it works in most of the world, or used to anyway--lots of things are changing (and not all for the better)). Many utility companies require a synchronization check relay in series with an automatic synchronization relay for additional protection. There are some utility companies that do not authorize manual synchronization operations, and others that require the ability to manually synchronize the machine(s).

My suggestion is to commission an engineered power system study to review your system and its capabilities, and have a look at the utility's requirements and make some recommendations, perhaps even estimate the cost(s) involved. If the goal is to sell power when the price is high, it might make sense to make the investment--but reliability requires training and procedures for the new scheme/equipment.

Thanks for your reply, but there are somethings that I want to elaborate regarding your reply.
The fourth controller that I suggest is not a DSE 8610MK II.

It's a DSE 8660 MK ll Controller (https://www.deepseaelectronics.com/genset/load-sharing-synchronising-control-modules/dse8660-mkii).

There will be not feedback to the utility. It's just incoming.

 

Thanks for your reply, but there are somethings that I want to elaborate regarding your reply.
The fourth controller that I suggest is not a DSE 8610MK II.

It's a DSE 8660 MK ll Controller (https://www.deepseaelectronics.com/genset/load-sharing-synchronising-control-modules/dse8660-mkii).

There will be not feedback to the utility. It's just incoming.

Just to clarify again The 03 controllers for Generator 1,2 and 3 are DSE 8610-MkII with load sheddinng system and fourth controller is DSE 8660 MK -ll ATS. I will share the protection single line later.

 

OWAIS766...
Welcome to Control Automation.
Solid earthing of Generators, assures destruction of generators!
Regards, Phil Corso

 

OWAIS766...
Welcome to Control Automation.
Solid earthing of Generators, assures destruction of generators!
Regards, Phil Corso

can you elaborate

 

Greetings All,
Protection SLD regarding the above thread for parallel operation of EDG and Uninterrupted changeover to mains ( i.e. momentary synchronization during changeover) is attached,. Comments, suggestion, critical analysis will be much appreciated

 

Whether you plan to sell power to the utility or not, they're going to have to be involved if you're synchronizing to them. Well, probably. I would still definitely reach out first before going much farther down this road.

 

Whether you plan to sell power to the utility or not, they're going to have to be involved if you're synchronizing to them. Well, probably. I would still definitely reach out first before going much farther down this road.

We are in island mode and we control the upstream GTGs as well. Therefore it is up to us what scheme we design

 

We are in island mode and we control the upstream GTGs as well. Therefore it is up to us what scheme we design

That's a useful detail to know...

 

owais766
When the neutrals of a group of generators in parallel are solidly-earthed, then the following should be considered:
1. Earth-Fault current at any location will be the total of all, limited only by the magnitude of the Fault impedance at the fault location. Thus, discrimination, as to location could be erroneous!
2. If the Earth-Fault occurs in one of the group's stator winding, its magnitude will seriously damage stator-laminations, beyond repair, even if the earth-fault protection relay's time setting is instantaneous!
3. Since the earthing-connection is located at only one point around the stator, it could be destroyed, leaving stator lamination iron unearthed!
Regards, Phil Corso

 

owais766
When the neutrals of a group of generators in parallel are solidly-earthed, then the following should be considered:
1. Earth-Fault current at any location will be the total of all, limited only by the magnitude of the Fault impedance at the fault location. Thus, discrimination, as to location could be erroneous!
2. If the Earth-Fault occurs in one of the group's stator winding, its magnitude will seriously damage stator-laminations, beyond repair, even if the earth-fault protection relay's time setting is instantaneous!
3. Since the earthing-connection is located at only one point around the stator, it could be destroyed, leaving stator lamination iron unearthed!
Regards, Phil Corso

Thanks for your reply, so you suggest Low Impedance grounding?

 

owais766
Two more considerations:
3. I'm excluding LV, 380V systems
4. No, not low Impedance grounding! Instead, Distribution-Xfmer-Grounding. It was covered in an earlier Forum. When I find it I'll provide details?

 

owais766
Two more considerations:
3. I'm excluding LV, 380V systems
4. No, not low Impedance grounding! Instead Distribution-Xfmer-Grounding. It was covered in an earlier Forum. When I find it I'll provide details?

Sure do provide details as u find.

 

owais766...
Use the search method (Magnifying lens at top of page) for NGT vs NGR!
Regards, Phil Corso

 

owais766...
Did you find it?
Regards, Phil Corso